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General Discussion / Chapter 3, First Flight
« Last post by jjveale on April 01, 2012, 11:20:12 pm »
Hello, friends! Here we are again, with another week and chapter to look forward to completing!

I wanted to encourage you - if you haven't been keeping up, please don't give up. Just post when you're ready and join the conversation. Of course I love it when you respond and it fills my life with joy... but I'll love it just as much if you do it this minute as I will if you do it when you get a few quiet moments in the  crazy of your day!

Now, Chapter 3.

If you'd like to view the official book club video with Voskamp, here's the link: http://www.incourage.me/2011/02/one-thousand-gifts-chapter-three.html

1. This is the week we challenge ourselves to write a list of 1,000 gifts we recognize in eucharisteo, thanksgiving. Start your list... and share five bits of thankfulness with us all. (Don't feel like you have to finish the list to 1,000 right now. Set a goal for yourself to keep working on it, but don't gorge yourself on thankfulness!)

2. Did any quotes jump out at you from this chapter? Please share at least one and tell us why it struck you as significant.

3. Voskamp refers to this eucharisteo as a new language. How long would you realistically guess it would take you to learn a new language (like Swahili? or Chinese? or Spanish?)? Do you feel the learning of the language of thankfulness should take less time than the learning of a recognized foreign language? How does viewing thanksgiving as a new language change your expectations of your performance as a woman of thanks?

4. In naming your gifts, do you agree with Voskamp that "in naming that which is right before me, that which I'd otherwise miss, the invisible becomes visible"? (pg. 54) Why or why not? Can you give specific examples?

5. How would finding joy and happiness in "all the little things" change the relationships in your life? (Your marriage? Your parenting?) How would your perspective change when/if the significant person in your life told you YOUR thankfulness made THEM happy?
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General Discussion / Re: Chapter 2: A Word to Live... and Die By
« Last post by rebecka.peterson on March 30, 2012, 11:38:42 am »
1. Did any thought/theme startle you this week? Please give at least one quote that resonated with you personally.

"Because how else do we accept His free gift of salvation if not with thanksgiving?  Thanksgiving is the evidence of our acceptance of whatever He gives.  Thanksgiving is the manifestation of our Yes! to His grace" (p. 39).  This paragraph kind of summed up the whole chapter for me.  The more I think about thanksgiving as "the evidence of our acceptance" the more it makes sense to me.

2. What's on your "bucket list"? Has this changed over the years? (i.e., before college/after college, before marriage/after marriage, before kids/after kids.) How? Why do you think our culture is fascinated with the idea of "Things to Do Before You Die"?

Two things on my bucket list: attempt to get a PhD and attempt to teach overseas.  When I was in college, I very much felt called to live overseas.  I've always had a heart for the hurting.  But, post-school, I think I've started to realize that there are a lot of hurting people around me.  Are some hurts bigger than others?  Sure.  But I'm definitely starting to wonder if I can make a bigger difference here in the States (where I speak the language and know the culture quite well!) than I can overseas.  I'm not sure.  Am I giving up on a dream?  Or worse, giving up on a calling?


3. When you consider your everyday, do you believe you can find things to make you "bow low," "see beauty," and be "arrested by wonder"? Why or why not?

I think so.  But I think it takes a lot of intentionality.  I think it's possible because I know I've done it on rare occasion. ;)


4. Voskamp spends several pages providing support that Charis/Grace, Eucharisto/Thanksgiving, and Chara/Joy exist whenever, wherever. Did she convince you? How does that affect your daily experience?

She does convince me.  And I hope this idea affects my daily experience.  I want to live life constantly being thankful for what I've been given.  I agree with Voskamp--if we can live a life full of thanksgiving, we should (at least in theory!) experience more joy.


5. What do you think of the concept that salvation may be acquired at the acceptance of Christ but "fullest" salvation is only available in thanksgiving?

I agree with JJ--not sure how much I love the word "fullest," but I definitely see what she's getting at.  It reminded me of something I heard a pastor say this summer.  He said that if he gave his son $5 and his son didn't really care, he wouldn't be too inclined to give his son more.  On the other hand, when his son shows great gratitude for something as small as $5, it makes him just want to give him more and more and more.  That analogy has really stuck with me.

I feel most complete in my marriage when I take the time to think about how incredible my husband is and how much he's done for me.  I feel most satisfied in my job when I think about how lucky I am to get to teach what I love to students who are pretty incredible.  The more I think about it, my life seems to make most sense when I'm thankful.
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General Discussion / Re: Chapter 1
« Last post by rebecka.peterson on March 30, 2012, 10:23:54 am »
AngelOfMusic--

I struggle with those questions, too.  It's ingrained in my head that good Christians read the Bible and pray every day.  Which, in my head, looks like something very specific.  But what about Christians who don't have a Bible?  What about Christians who were never "taught" how to pray?  In asking questions like these, it becomes clear that my definitions of "good Christianity" are very much derived from my particular culture.  Just like you said, "... still feeling as though I am getting an 'F' in Christianity."  I feel this way oftentimes, too, but this is yet another indication of how much our culture (which is so heavily based on education) has influenced our thoughts on our faith.

I'm not saying our culture is horrible.  I rather like it, actually.  I'm saying it affects me--and my views on how faith should be lived--more than I realize sometimes.

I don't think our salvation is dependent on a list of spiritual disciplines such as praying, reading the Bible, fasting, going to church, etc.  I think those things should come out of a desire to praise and to know God.  I don't want to dilute their importance.  And I definitely don't want to say, "We should only do these things when we feel like it."  But what I do know is that guilt doesn't do me any good. 

I think Voskamp is on to something with this idea of thanksgiving.  Is it possible that gratitude can lead to freedom, which can lead to a desire to serve and to please as opposed to an obligation?
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General Discussion / Chapter 2: A Word to Live... and Die By - JJ
« Last post by jjveale on March 29, 2012, 03:02:19 pm »
1. Startling thought/theme. Last weekend a young lady we knew through Isaiah's days as a youth pastor died from cancer. She was 21. When I read Voskamp's chapter I was moved by her question: "more time for more what?" When I think about my life, so much of it right now seems to be passing time. So why do I care? Why do I fight for life quality? What am I actually going to do with the moments God has given me? I was also challenged by her assessment: "I wake to the discontent of life in my skin. I wake to self-hatred, to the wrestle to get it all done, the relentless anxiety that I am failing. Always, the failing. I yell at children, fester with bitterness, forget doctor appointments, lose library books, live selfishly, skip prayer, complain, go to bed too late, neglect cleaning the toilets. I live tired. Afraid. Anxious. Weary." (pg. 27). When you see it written out like this it looks awful! But when I am honest with myself in the quiet moments, this is how I live: with the restless anxiety that I Am Failing.

2. Bucket List. I have a ton of things on my bucket list! Before I was married I wanted to explore the world and live long enough to have sex. :) Isn't that funny? Then I wanted to live long enough to have kids, to get that next achievement in my career, to change the world. I would like to travel to Australia and Antarctica, to be a traveler of all corners of the world. I would like to feel the commitment I give to my kids is worth it....

I think we're fascinated with the Bucket List because we come from a land of prosperity, and a culture of the next big thing. The Bucket List epitomizes this philosophy. When we begin to live like the present is all we have, the idea of cramming everything in before we die becomes more appealing.

3.Everyday beauty. I do get arrested every once in awhile by things in my every day life that are beautiful. But not that often (one of the things I'm hoping to change through this book!). Too often I forget the absolute wonder of my daughters in the absolute frustration that comes when they are all talking at the same time, wanting my attention. I forget the complete joy I had in my husband when we were early married for the recognition that he's not detail oriented the Wheat Thins may very well end up in the refrigerator today. I feel like I almost REFUSE to see the beauty in today because I'm holding out for something MORE. More spectacular, more emotional, more unusual...

4. Proof for Charis/Eucharistea/Chara. I think I'm convinced. I'm still not sure how to incorporated that daily because it seems to simple... and impossible! But I have studied scripture and I think she's telling the truth. :)

5.Fullest Salvation. This was a little hard for me to swallow at first. At the same time, I can reel off dozens of names of people I know have accepted Christ as their Savior but do not live a life that reflects joy (myself included 95% of the time!). While I don't like the idea of categories of salvation like "fullest", I do believe there's truth to what she's putting out there.
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General Discussion / Re: Introductions and three things
« Last post by Kathryn Chambers on March 27, 2012, 09:45:46 am »
My name is Kathryn Chambers, and I am married to a handsome cowboy (almost 12 years now!), and I am the momma of three daughters (Rhian Grace, 11, Elizabeth, 7, Jacklyn "Jack", 5).

Where I'm living: Middle of nowhere, Osage Co., OK

What I'm doing with my time: I am staying at home with my three daughters and helping my husband on the ranch. I work part-time at my daughters' school doing promotion and recruitment. This is the first time in seven years that I have not been completely consumed by advancing my career, so it is a little strange, and has taken some time to adjust and learn to enjoy life at a slower pace.

3 Things I think About: Raising my daughters to be Godly, loving young ladies who are also practical and courageous. Learning to be a more submissive and helpful partner to my husband, with not only my best interests in mind, but his also. We will be homeschooling this fall, and so I am overwhelmed and excited by piles of curriculum and figuring out what "works."

3 Things I'm Thankful for: My little family--I come from a broken and hurtful home, so the idea of shaping and molding a healthy family with a legacy of love and faith is challenging and ever-rewarding. My doctoral studies--while challenging, frustrating, and extremely overwhelming at times, I am thankful for the colleagues I have made and the broadening of my prospective on life. Staying at home--while I am never idle, and have to constantly guard my time (I am a doer and a people-pleaser--therefore a "yes, I can do that!" kind of person), I am more grateful everyday for the circumstances leading me to leave my full-time career. I am thrilled at the opportunity to help my husband grow our ranch (and about time that I actually used my education in  marketing to further the business that sustains us).

3 Things I Want to Get Out of this Discussion: I am a worrier, never truly content with my circumstances. I have pushed way too hard for way too long. It is time for me (at nearly 30), to finally discover who IIIIIIII am, and be grateful and joyful in what I already have--which is far, far more than I deserve, or ever dreamed.

Initial Impressions: I am amazed at this group of women that JJ has collected. As always, I am grateful to call you my friend, and I am in awe of your power to connect others. Thank you for including me.
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General Discussion / Chapter 2: A Word to Live... and Die By
« Last post by jjveale on March 26, 2012, 02:16:52 pm »
Good day and welcome to a new week! If you'd like to see the author interview for Chapter 2, click through to this link! http://www.incourage.me/2011/02/chapter-2-of-one-thousand-gifts.html

1. Did any thought/theme startle you this week? Please give at least one quote that resonated with you personally.
2. What's on your "bucket list"? Has this changed over the years? (i.e., before college/after college, before marriage/after marriage, before kids/after kids.) How? Why do you think our culture is fascinated with the idea of "Things to Do Before You Die"?
3. When you consider your everyday, do you believe you can find things to make you "bow low," "see beauty," and be "arrested by wonder"? Why or why not?
4. Voskamp spends several pages providing support that Charis/Grace, Eucharisto/Thanksgiving, and Chara/Joy exist whenever, wherever. Did she convince you? How does that affect your daily experience?
5. What do you think of the concept that salvation may be acquired at the acceptance of Christ but "fullest" salvation is only available in thanksgiving?
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General Discussion / Re: Chapter 1
« Last post by angelofmusic47 on March 23, 2012, 06:26:47 pm »
Rebecka - I just finished reading your post and had to respond.  I, too, am finding myself stuck on the "Everything is spiritual" concept.  I am at a bit of what I consider a dry point. I have struggled to find a church that I really like out here.  And even if we found a church we liked, both my husband and I work on Sundays and the only churches that offer services at any time other than Sunday mornings in our area are the Catholic churches.  So I find myself listening to podcasts of sermons and reading my Bible but still feeling as though I am getting an "F" in Christianity.  I know there is more to our relationship with God than the building we worship in or the congregation we belong to. It is about so much more than doing spiritual things.  Yet so much of what I believe I should do as a Christian is regulated by doing those spiritual things. 
I know for a fact that God communicates with us even when we are at our least spiritual. I have experienced that first hand. Even in times that I feel spiritually dry I find myself feeling the presence of God and see Him at work in my life.  So why am do I feel my faith and very salvation is so closely linked to my church attendance, reading the Bible, structured prayer and tithing?  I know all of those things are very important. But do they DEFINE our salvation? 
A man who was a spiritual mentor to myself and my ex-husband stressed how important it was to be faithful in all of those things.  He indicated that if you are not faithful, then your salvation may not be valid.  That thought scares the living daylights out of me.  Could it be true?  Will my lack of discipline and diligence in my devotions cost me my soul?  Or is my relationship with God ever changing and more personal than that?  The old Testament is filled with examples of how strict worship of God and should be. Are the rules more rigid than we believe and we are giving ourselves too much liberty in our questions and worship?
But then I think of Hosea 6:6 "I want your loyalty, not your sacrifices. I want you to know me, not to give me burnt offerings." and think about how much that speaks of the fact that God wants to really know us as we are. Not as a bunch of robots doing the same thing. Does that mean that God wants me to worship him in my own language? Could that mean that my morning drives of just rambling to God and listing off all that I'm thankful for are the same kind of relationship He wants with me?  I was little I used to talk to God as though He was right next to me.  He was so very real.  He was the imaginary friend I played with.  Now as an adult, I find myself wanting to talk freely to him that same way.  Yet I feel somewhat bound by a code of conduct that means I need to speak with him and pray to him in a specific way. Or that I need to be attending church regularly, be involved in extra ministries and spending all my time working on something "spiritual" in order to fulfill all God is asking of me. I do know that I need to make more room in my life for God. But what of the moments outside the "spiritual box"? Are those just as precious to God? Do those just as spiritual as church moments? I was raised to believe that going to church and reading your Bible are two of THE most important things of being a Christian. It makes me wonder how off base we get in that sense. Are we boxing ourselves in or are we diluting our faith obligations to make ourselves feel better? Of course, even verbalizing any of this causes me to wince at how blasphemous it sounds. Even some Christian circles would automatically condemn such talk.

I take some comfort in remembering how much the disciples questioned Jesus on a regular basis. Jesus was never angry with them. He just continued to teach them.  The wonderful thing about this forum so far is seeing how many other Christians have the same kinds of questions. I can't help but feel that there is so much more to God and our relationships with him than we have even been taught.  I am excited to hear more from everyone about their thoughts, questions and struggles.  Thank you God for inquisitive minds and those who listen and embrace those questions!

(And forgive me... I'm trying to work on being less verbose as well. I just have so many questions....!)
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General Discussion / Chapter 1: Rebecka
« Last post by rebecka.peterson on March 23, 2012, 03:44:23 pm »
1)  How did theme(s) of this chapter touch you personally?

I, too, have never lost a child.  But you don't have to lose a child to know that this world is broken, and life really sucks sometimes.  I've lived in four countries (two developed and two under-developed), and the question I have struggled with since I was a child is the question Ann asks over and over again:  "If God is good, why does He let bad things happen?"  Why will some kids (i.e., me) never, ever want for food, while others will be forced to lower themselves to the position of beggars just survive from day to day?  Why did I get my choice of education, when others only dream of getting to go school?  Why I am here, and they're...there?

While there may not be answers to these questions, I do believe there are responses to the situations.  I'm trying to figure those out.

2)  Direct our attention to at least one quote – why did this stand out to you?

"We don't see the material world for what it is meant to be:  as the means to communion with God" (p. 16).  This reminded me of a lesson our pastor taught a couple weeks ago that really resonated with me.  He said we so often feel like we lack spirituality in our lives.  And our go-to method to cure this is to "do more spiritual things," such as reading our Bible, praying, fasting, etc.  Not that these things shouldn't be done, but there's a real danger in compartmentalizing our lives into the "spiritual" and the "non-spiritual."  Because God's everywhere (and, furthermore, I'm pretty sure He doesn't want to be seen as a chore).  So, going to work can be a real spiritual act, if we're thinking about how we can encourage our co-workers.  Eating dinner can be spiritual, if--in addition to nurturing our bodies--we long to nurture the person(s) sitting next to us.  JJ--loving my cats can be a spiritual act because, in them, I can choose to see the creativity and hilarity of their Creator.  ;)

That's my summary of the sermon, which I'm pretty sure was taken from Rob Bell's "Everything is Spiritual" tour, if you're interested.  I'm hoping that this will be a theme Ann will continue to develop.  Because it's something I desperately need to chew on some more.

3)  Do you think Voskamp is being realistic in challenging us to live an "empty, full" life? Does that make sense to you? Why or why not?

I agree with Heather--I guess I didn't see this as much of a theme in this chapter.  I do really like how JJ summarized it as surrender though.  That's a concept I can wrap my head around a little better.  For me, surrender means humility.  I spend nearly ever waking moment figuring out how I can become better, more important, etc., etc.  And yet, that's the exact opposite of what Jesus did: "[Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant..." (Phil 2:5-7).  Gulp.  Jesus was continually searching for ways to lower Himself, to serve others.  What do I do?  I continually search for ways to lift myself up and have others below me.  I wonder if this lowering is somehow connected the "empty, full" life?  In lowering ourselves, we empty ourselves of...us.  But I know I feel fullest when I'm helping others.

4)  Did you disagree with anything in the chapter? Why?

I'm not sure I fully buy into "bad things happen because God knows the full story and we don't."  I feel like that's saying God wants bad things to happen, or at least is ok with them happening.  I may be totally wrong here, but--at this point in my life--I can't buy into a god like that.  If I cried over Ann's story, never having met the lady and reading about it years after the occurrence of the tragedies, how much more did God--the One who is love and who created Ann--cry as her life was split apart?  If I'm imperfect, and I feel so much compassion, how much more so does God (the one in whose image I'm created)?

So, what's the alternative?  There are things God can't stop from happening?  At the risk of sounding heretical, that's where I am right now (honesty, right?).  I'm wondering if God didn't create the world in such a way that He chose to surrender some control to man.  In this surrender, he made creatures that were able to choose--they would be able to decide for themselves if they wanted Him or not.  But they would also have other choices to make--good ones and bad ones.  And with that choice came sin.  And with the entrance of sin, the world broke.

I know that wreaks of heresy.  I'm not saying God isn't omnipotent.  I'm saying maybe He chose to release some of that power to man in order to create something truly beautiful--a relationship.  There have just been too many times in my life that I've thought, "This isn't how God intended life to be.  This isn't the Garden of Eden."

5)  Please give at least one item that your mind keeps going back to from this chapter. Does it encourage you to take action in any way?

So while I don't fully agree with the "God knows best" mentality (I've found that those words aren't that comforting to the grief-stricken anyway), I really love the idea that we can choose to use life's heartaches as a means to helping us grow.  I think Kristin summed up my feelings perfectly: "God does some of his best work when we are at our worst."  Some of the hardest times in my life are the times I've grown and matured the most.  I think because I was so desperate.

But the question still remains:  HOW do we choose to learn from our sorrows?  How do we choose to grow?  I don't know for sure.  One thing that has helped me get through heartaches is focusing on others and letting others learn from my sorrows and my experiences.  Sharing is therapeutic.  Helping is even more so.  As I read some of your gut-wrenching stories I kept thinking, "These stories need to be shared.  People need to hear them."  The high school girls I teach?  They need to hear that they're not the only ones who have been abused.  They need to hear that they're not alone.  They need to hear that they're worthy because of Christ, not because of a boy.  So, from someone who spends day in and day out with high school and college students, please keep sharing your stories.  Because they impacted me; I know they can impact others; and I think sharing/helping is a way to healing.

One more thing and then I'll shut up.  Ann said, "Satan's sin becomes the first sin of all humanity:  the sin of ingratitude" (p. 15).  I'm always hesitant to believe formulaic statements like this...but I'm intrigued by this idea.  Very intrigued.

PS
I'm really trying to work on becoming less verbose.
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General Discussion / Re: Chapter 1
« Last post by Heather on March 22, 2012, 08:36:33 pm »
1.      How did the theme (s) of this chapter touch you personally?
While I haven't lost a child, and I don't understand the depth of that pain, I think that everyone can relate to losing someone.  Sometimes, a death is expected and comes at the end of a long life lived.  But, other times, death is completely unexpected and hits you right in the face.   A couple weeks ago, I was working as an EMT at a local fire.  I watched a friend of mine, someone I've known for almost 20 years, walk into that building to fight the fire.  He never walked out.  He died.  He was almost a year older than me.  His oldest son is in Kindergarten with my son.  He has three boys (6, almost 3, and 4 months) who will never know their father.  I can understand the feeling of being numb to everything.  I am angry at God.  I am angry at everyone who is going about their lives as if nothing happened.  Even though, (intellectually) I understand that their lives haven't been ripped apart.  I feel like my pain is so huge that everyone should be feeling it.

2.      Direct your attention to at least one quote-why did this stand out to you?
" how do I fully live when life is full of hurt?  How do I wake up to joy and grace and beauty and all that is the fullest life when I must stay numb to losses and crushed dreams and all that empties me out?" (page 12)  "How do I give up resentment for gratitude, gnawing anger for spilling joy?" (page 22)

This really hit home for me.  It is so hard to find the beauty in life when you are going through loss and pain.  And that pain can be in the form of dealing with the death of someone close to you, it can be struggles in your marriage (oh, yeah, I'm there, too), it can be trying to find out how you fit into this world, it can be anything.  For me, dealing with Jamison's death has knocked me to my core.  I know that I should honor my friend by being the best parent that I can be, by enjoying a nice long run on a sunny day (he was a runner, too), and by smiling as often as possible and frequently when not possible.  But, when you feel pain so intensely, you miss out on the simple pleasures in life.  There is no 'normal' at this point.  How am I supposed to fake happiness when every part of me wants to rage at a God who would let this happen?

3.      Do you think Voskamp is being realistic in challenging you to live an 'empty, full' life?  Does that make sense to you?  Why or why not?
I have to be honest and say that I don't think she did a very good job of addressing the 'empty, full' theme in this chapter.  She talked about loss and she talks about grace, but I didn't really pick up on the 'empty, full.'  Maybe I was distracted by the stories she used to describe her pain.  And, continuing in the vein of honesty, living an 'empty, full' life doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me.  I would rather be full of God's grace, of God's peace, of God's blessings, and of understanding.

4.      Did you disagree with anything in the chapter? Why?
I didn't really disagree with much.  I appreciated her honesty in the questions she asks of God.  I am asking a lot of those same questions.  I was able to note a difference in the way she and I are reacting to the pain of loss.  On page 16- 17, she talks about how all she sees is what isn't.  Yet, on Sundays, when she sits in the church, she can remember the love of God.  I wish that I could be there.  Instead, I am stuck sitting in my church dealing with rage and anger and bitterness toward God.  I am being forced to remember that God is real, but also being reminded that on one afternoon, He just didn't care.

5.      Please give at least one item that your mind keeps going back to from this chapter.  Does it encourage you to take action in any way?
I think it is pretty obvious that I am very much stuck in the pain of loss right now.  It certainly resonated with me when I was reading the chapter.  I cried through the stories of babies dying.  And then I cried for my own loss.  As for encouragement  I'm not there yet.  I know that the pain will lessen.  I know that it will get easier.  But, right now, everything is so raw.  So, for now, I am going to run (my way of dealing with things), and I'm going to cry, and I'm going to be angry at God.  And at some point, I'll get through a day without crying.
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General Discussion / The Emotions!
« Last post by jjveale on March 22, 2012, 07:22:59 pm »
Just thought I would rejoice that I wasn't the only one who cried through this :)
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